hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
Because quite frankly, even if the GB are a bunch of narcissistic wannabe powerful guys, imho, the worst thing they have done is wake up people on saturday mornings.
@questioningmyfaith
This is an interesting thought.
Please see my post on this thread, if you are interested in the views of others:
www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/470790004/how-wonderful-jw-org#/469960005
there are some who still love the organization & the people in it.. who understand that every large organization has their own issues.. they believe the advice on what type of person you are supposed to be & how to treat others has made them a better person.
and they believe, quite frankly, even if the g.b are a bunch of narcissistic wannabe powerful guys, the worest thing they have done is to wake up people on saturday mornings.. i`ve been awake most of the night thinking about this, wondering if this person had a point.
then something came to my mind.
Quite frankly, even if the G.B are a bunch of narcissistic wannabe powerful guys, the WORST thing they have done is to wake up people on Saturday mornings.
The Governing Body have instructed millions of Witnesses, in God's behalf, that anyone the elders decide is to be dispellowshipped must be cut off and not spoken to.. They have told millions that this is a matter of loyalty to God, a command from Almighty God himself.
Further they have repeatedly and relentlessly indoctrinated millions of people to see the shunning as a loving action.. Even when their own beloved children are disfellowshipped.
Robert was disfellowshipped for nearly 16 years, during which time his parents and siblings firmly and loyally applied the direction in God’s Word to quit mixing in company with wrongdoers, not even greeting such ones. Robert has been reinstated for some years now and is progressing well spiritually.
When asked what moved him to return to Jehovah and His people after such a long time, he replied that the stand that his family took affected him.
“Had my family associated with me even a little, say to check up on me, that small dose of association would have satisfied me and likely not allowed my desire for association to be a motivating factor to return to God.”
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013446#h=27:181-27:850
14 God’s Word commands that unrepentant sinners be removed from the congregation. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.)
This is necessary for at least three reasons: (1) to keep Jehovah’s name free from reproach, (2) to protect the congregation from contamination, and (3) to help the sinner come to repentance if possible.
15. Loyalty to Jehovah calls for an answer to what searching questions?15 Do we share Jesus’ view of those who have become set in their lawless course?
We need to give thought to these questions: ‘Would I choose to associate regularly with someone who has been disfellowshipped or who has disassociated himself from the Christian congregation? What if that one is a close relative who no longer lives at home?’ Such a situation can be a real test of our love of righteousness and of our loyalty to God.*
16, 17. What difficulty did a Christian mother face, and what helped her to uphold the arrangement for disfellowshipping unrepentant wrongdoers?16 Consider the experience of a sister whose adult son at one time had love for Jehovah. Later in life, however, he unrepentantly chose to practice lawlessness. Hence, he was disfellowshipped from the congregation.
Our sister loved Jehovah, but she also loved her son and found it extremely difficult to apply the Scriptural command to avoid associating with him.
17 What advice would you have given this sister? An elder helped her to realize that Jehovah understood the pain she felt. The brother invited her to think about the pain Jehovah must have experienced when some of his angelic sons rebelled.
The elder reasoned with her that even though Jehovah knows how painful such a circumstance can be, he requires that unrepentant sinners be disfellowshipped.
She took the reminders to heart and loyally upheld the disfellowshipping arrangement.* Such loyalty makes Jehovah’s heart glad.—Prov. 27:11.
18, 19. (a) Cutting off contact with a practicer of lawlessness gives evidence of our hatred for what? (b) What may result when we are loyal to God and his arrangement?18 If you face a similar situation, please remember that Jehovah sympathizes with you.
By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.
However, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her. Your loyalty to Jehovah may increase the likelihood that the disciplined one will repent and return to Jehovah.
19 One individual who was disfellowshipped and was later reinstated wrote: “I am happy that Jehovah loves his people enough to see that his organization is kept clean.
What may seem harsh to outsiders is both necessary and really a loving thing to do.”
Do you think that this person would have been helped to come to such a conclusion had members of the congregation, including her family, maintained regular contact with her while she was disfellowshipped?
Our supporting the Scriptural arrangement of disfellowshipping gives evidence that we love righteousness and recognize Jehovah’s right to set standards of conduct.
19, 20. (a) How has Christ gradually helped his followers to refine the way serious wrongdoing is handled? (b) What are three reasons for disfellowshipping unrepentant wrongdoers?19 Back in 1892, the Watch Tower commented that it is “our duty to disfellowship (as Christians) those who, either directly or indirectly, deny that Christ gave himself a ransom [a corresponding price] for all.” (Read 2 John 10.) In 1904, the book The New Creation acknowledged that those who persist in wrong conduct pose a real danger of demoralizing the congregation.
Back then, the entire congregation would participate in “church trials” to examine cases of serious wrongdoing. However, such occasions were rare.
In 1944, The Watchtower showed that only responsible brothers should handle such matters.
In 1952 a Bible-based procedure for handling judicial matters was published in The Watchtower, highlighting a key reason for disfellowshipping unrepentant ones—to keep the congregation clean.
20 In the decades since then, Christ has helped his followers to clarify and refine the handling of serious cases of wrongdoing. Christian elders are carefully trained to care for judicial matters in Jehovah’s way...
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014250#h=25:608-25:799
The Governing Body decide the judicial procedures.. as well as all the instructions in the Watchtower publications, and when the publications are to be studied.
The responsibility of the Governing Body is clear;
for indoctrinating well-meaning parents to believe that DFing is a direct command from God, and necessary to save their childs life (what parent would not do absolutely anything to save their children??).
The only people who cannot see the effect of the undue influence the GB and their teachings have exerted.. are people who do not understand the effect of undue influence, or they are still under it's influence themselves.
Steven Alan Hassan’s BITE Model to Mind Control & Undue InfluenceIt is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause.
It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present...
www.truthrundown.net/think-about-it/cult-expert-steven-hassan/
i have seen posts on several you tube sites stating that jackson said during his rc testimony that jw's don't shun, celebrating christmas is not a disfellowshipping offence, birthdays are ok and ones doesn't have to agree with jw doctrine.
i have read most of the posts on other threads while and after his testimony but never read any of this?
did he really say these things or is someone on the net just stirring up some bs?.
i have seen posts on several you tube sites stating that jackson said during his rc testimony that jw's don't shun, celebrating christmas is not a disfellowshipping offence, birthdays are ok and ones doesn't have to agree with jw doctrine.
i have read most of the posts on other threads while and after his testimony but never read any of this?
did he really say these things or is someone on the net just stirring up some bs?.
Is there any statement in the literature, including elder's handbooks, that says the celebration of any holiday is a disfellowshippable offence?
See pdf pages 26 and 27 of the old elders manual, it is classed under 'apostasy' :
1991 elders manual from Royal Commission
See pdf page 66 of the latest elders manual. Also classed as 'apostasy' :
hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
"If there is no god, is there hope for mankind"
I know this is nearly two years old, but the reasoning in it is sound:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100251972/snap-out-of-it-life-keeps-getting-better/
hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
@questioningmyfaith - Even if you don't feel like posting now, this thread might help you think..
www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/269000/pastor-my-old-church-tried-re-convert-me-yesterday
this is an honest question on my part.
someone on this board asked me 'how do you know' a while ago and i really struggled with it.
in fact, it was a turning point for me.
last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.
he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.
then out of the blue he tells me; .
kaik 8 hours agoMy mom does not believe in the overlapping generation
Billy ex Blaze 7 hours agoMy parents don't believe it either.
Have either of you pointed out that that means the Faithful Slave are false prophets? If they are not accepting this redefined meaning of the word 'generation', any JW is admitting the following was an indisputable false prophecy in Gods name >>
(As a side point, this page has some good scans of old generation teachings):
www.answerjw.com/1914/index.html#p7
the comet
"I can't say this enough..doctrine doesn't matter to people under 30!! They don't know and don't care."
----------
That being the case, part of me feels that they deserve to be in a cult.
But the children they will have, or already have got, do not deserve to be in a cult. They all need to be educated about cults and critical thinking..
This is what really bothers me..
hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
One more point:
So this is my question that I wonder how other people got over certain indoctrinations of JW's.
Many never do. Most never even realise that they were indoctrinated and controlled, from childhood onwards in some cases..
That is why some of us spread what you may call "anti-watchtower" stuff. (Information regarding the effects of Watchtower policies, not Rick Fearon type nonsense..)
Prevention is better than a cure.
hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
Great post, Simon.
@questioningmyfaith, I just wanted to say that I hope you did not find my last post too off-putting..
I was not actually accusing you of being a sociopathic person, I was pointing out an apparent contradiction in what you are saying. I hope this makes it a little clearer..
For example:
I am not negative towards the WT at all. So honestly I am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the WT because I still love the organization and the people in it.
...The GB has had bad policies in place.
And just one other thing on blood transfusions because I know that is a big one.... I am NOT saying that lives could not be saved with a transfusion.
But if I had the firm faith in god I once had then I would die before accepting blood.
People are responsible for their personal decisions. If someone has full faith in god and they make the decision to turn down a blood transfusion for their god I just don't see the crime there.
------------
Broken families? Do we live in the world of leave it to beaver? Family break up in all walks of life. Some family members don't speak because of differing political views...
I have come to terms that I'll lose my witness friends and families. But again, I just don't care. I know why they are going to make the decisions that they make.
You and your family have been heavily indoctrinated and repeatedly told:
*Loyalty to God= shun those who elders, following Watchtower guidelines, declare to be DF'd.
*Loyalty to God= You must not have a blood transfusion, based on verses that do not relate to modern medical procedures.
Had you not gained some degree of mental freedom from the Watchtowers propaganda and indoctrination techniques, you would right now be willing to shun a family member who the elders decide is unrepentant of the vile sin of changing a personal belief or even being seen smoking a cigarette for example, and you would be willing to throw your life away based on a scripture that, taken in context, does not even relate to blood transfusions.
You likely would not do these things now.
Yet as an indoctrinated JW, you would have.
I believe the advice on what type of person you are supposed to be and how to treat others has made me a better person... (Likable is completely subjective, so I'll leave that).Do you still think that the Watchtower teachings have been responsible for making you a better person, and taught you how to treat others..?
You should be pleased when your family and friends shun you, then.
You should be proud that they are demonstrating the best way to treat those who 'sin', or those we disagree with on matters of faith.
They have been taught well, haven't they?...
